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	<title>Comments on: Sizing up the Super-Sauropods (revised)</title>
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	<link>http://www.hmnh.org/archives/2006/08/05/sizing-up-the-super-sauropods/</link>
	<description>The institutionalized doodles and discoveries of a dead-animal designer.</description>
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		<title>By: john cox</title>
		<link>http://www.hmnh.org/archives/2006/08/05/sizing-up-the-super-sauropods/comment-page-1/#comment-8117</link>
		<dc:creator>john cox</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Dec 2006 18:50:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hmnh.org/archives/2006/08/05/sizing-up-the-super-sauropods/#comment-8117</guid>
		<description>hi-very interesting information-i dont know much about sauropods but -in my opinion -the largest ones would have yet to be discovered -byu museum may have some massive bones never recorded -but the brachiosaur species as a whole are still massive and taller than most sauropods discovered.With more and more massive bones aiming to belong to the largest dinosaurs-there seems like no limit for size in land animals as of yet.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>hi-very interesting information-i dont know much about sauropods but -in my opinion -the largest ones would have yet to be discovered -byu museum may have some massive bones never recorded -but the brachiosaur species as a whole are still massive and taller than most sauropods discovered.With more and more massive bones aiming to belong to the largest dinosaurs-there seems like no limit for size in land animals as of yet.</p>
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		<title>By: Matt Celeskey</title>
		<link>http://www.hmnh.org/archives/2006/08/05/sizing-up-the-super-sauropods/comment-page-1/#comment-5776</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt Celeskey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Sep 2006 04:07:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hmnh.org/archives/2006/08/05/sizing-up-the-super-sauropods/#comment-5776</guid>
		<description>Hi Jerry -

Too small you say? Well, better in this case to have erred on the side of caution, I suppose. Can&#039;t wait to hear more, and I&#039;ll be certain to revise it again then!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Jerry -</p>
<p>Too small you say? Well, better in this case to have erred on the side of caution, I suppose. Can&#8217;t wait to hear more, and I&#8217;ll be certain to revise it again then!</p>
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		<title>By: Jerry D. Harris</title>
		<link>http://www.hmnh.org/archives/2006/08/05/sizing-up-the-super-sauropods/comment-page-1/#comment-5756</link>
		<dc:creator>Jerry D. Harris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Sep 2006 14:04:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hmnh.org/archives/2006/08/05/sizing-up-the-super-sauropods/#comment-5756</guid>
		<description>Hi All - Matt, nice job with the article, even the revised version...but I&#039;m afraid you&#039;ve still got the &lt;i&gt;Amphicoelias&lt;/i&gt; much too small.  Unfortunately, I can&#039;t say anything else about it &#039;til a few months, and then all I can say is: go to SVP 2008.  But &lt;i&gt;Puertasaurus&lt;/i&gt; is indeed one big mofo!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi All &#8211; Matt, nice job with the article, even the revised version&#8230;but I&#8217;m afraid you&#8217;ve still got the <i>Amphicoelias</i> much too small.  Unfortunately, I can&#8217;t say anything else about it &#8217;til a few months, and then all I can say is: go to SVP 2008.  But <i>Puertasaurus</i> is indeed one big mofo!</p>
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		<title>By: Trevor Madin</title>
		<link>http://www.hmnh.org/archives/2006/08/05/sizing-up-the-super-sauropods/comment-page-1/#comment-5539</link>
		<dc:creator>Trevor Madin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Sep 2006 13:10:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hmnh.org/archives/2006/08/05/sizing-up-the-super-sauropods/#comment-5539</guid>
		<description>Hey guys,Speaking of very large sauropods, Dunno if you are interested but you might be aware that there were dinosaur footprints discovered in Broome Australia by that were 1.7 meters long, thats about 5&#039;6&quot;!so the maker of these prints must have been pretty damn big. Also Bruhathkayosaurus was by the sounds of things a fair bit bigger than Argentinosaurus if the fossil was a genuine sauropod?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey guys,Speaking of very large sauropods, Dunno if you are interested but you might be aware that there were dinosaur footprints discovered in Broome Australia by that were 1.7 meters long, thats about 5&#8242;6&#8243;!so the maker of these prints must have been pretty damn big. Also Bruhathkayosaurus was by the sounds of things a fair bit bigger than Argentinosaurus if the fossil was a genuine sauropod?</p>
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		<title>By: Hairy Museum of Natural History &#187; Revising the Super-Sauropods</title>
		<link>http://www.hmnh.org/archives/2006/08/05/sizing-up-the-super-sauropods/comment-page-1/#comment-5378</link>
		<dc:creator>Hairy Museum of Natural History &#187; Revising the Super-Sauropods</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Aug 2006 02:55:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hmnh.org/archives/2006/08/05/sizing-up-the-super-sauropods/#comment-5378</guid>
		<description>[...] A photo posted over at NewCritters.com has led me to revise my earlier post comparing the newly-described Puertasaurus reuili with the legendary Amphicoelias fragillimus. Turns out Puertasaurus is a little less massive than I had portrayed it, although I still wouldn&#8217;t want to carry one for any distance. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] A photo posted over at NewCritters.com has led me to revise my earlier post comparing the newly-described Puertasaurus reuili with the legendary Amphicoelias fragillimus. Turns out Puertasaurus is a little less massive than I had portrayed it, although I still wouldn&#8217;t want to carry one for any distance. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: NewCritters.com &#187; New GIANT Dinosaur - Puertasaurus reuili</title>
		<link>http://www.hmnh.org/archives/2006/08/05/sizing-up-the-super-sauropods/comment-page-1/#comment-5358</link>
		<dc:creator>NewCritters.com &#187; New GIANT Dinosaur - Puertasaurus reuili</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Aug 2006 00:54:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hmnh.org/archives/2006/08/05/sizing-up-the-super-sauropods/#comment-5358</guid>
		<description>[...] The Hairy Museum of Natural History has an excellent blog post discussing the massive size of P. reuili and comparing it to the mythical Amphicoelias fragillimus. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] The Hairy Museum of Natural History has an excellent blog post discussing the massive size of P. reuili and comparing it to the mythical Amphicoelias fragillimus. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Matt Celeskey</title>
		<link>http://www.hmnh.org/archives/2006/08/05/sizing-up-the-super-sauropods/comment-page-1/#comment-5230</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt Celeskey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Aug 2006 04:42:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hmnh.org/archives/2006/08/05/sizing-up-the-super-sauropods/#comment-5230</guid>
		<description>Hi wolfwalker—thanks for the question. I enjoyed comparing the sauropods, and didn&#039;t expect the new titanosaur verts to be so much more massive than Amphicoelias.

I&#039;ve never heard of any other &lt;i&gt;A. fragillimus&lt;/i&gt; material, but that could just mean that I haven&#039;t heard the rumors. Near as I can tell, the type vertebra is the only specimen mentioned in the literature.

Regarding the legitimacy of Cope&#039;s measurements—&lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amphicoelias&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Wikipedia&#039;s entry on the genus&lt;/a&gt; suggests that the &quot;Bone Wars&quot; between Cope and Marsh may have led Cope to either inadvertently or deliberately exaggerate the size of the specimen. That is the only source I know of that uses the conflict to cast doubt on the size of &lt;i&gt;A. fragillimus.&lt;/i&gt; While both Cope and Marsh engaged in less-than-rigorous scientific behavior, without further proof to the contrary I&#039;m inclined to give Cope the benefit of the doubt.

Ultimately, I don&#039;t think that it causes much debate, certainly not enough to have researchers lining up on one side or another. Were there 160-foot diplodocids roaming the Jurassic West? Did Cope exaggerate his measurements in order to &#039;scoop&#039; his rival? Both scenarios are possible, and they are not mutually exclusive. But without a specimen, all arguments are moot.

One thing that I think is cool about the new titanosaurs—they show that animals of such stature are physically possible, and they did exist!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi wolfwalker—thanks for the question. I enjoyed comparing the sauropods, and didn&#8217;t expect the new titanosaur verts to be so much more massive than Amphicoelias.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve never heard of any other <i>A. fragillimus</i> material, but that could just mean that I haven&#8217;t heard the rumors. Near as I can tell, the type vertebra is the only specimen mentioned in the literature.</p>
<p>Regarding the legitimacy of Cope&#8217;s measurements—<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amphicoelias" rel="nofollow">Wikipedia&#8217;s entry on the genus</a> suggests that the &#8220;Bone Wars&#8221; between Cope and Marsh may have led Cope to either inadvertently or deliberately exaggerate the size of the specimen. That is the only source I know of that uses the conflict to cast doubt on the size of <i>A. fragillimus.</i> While both Cope and Marsh engaged in less-than-rigorous scientific behavior, without further proof to the contrary I&#8217;m inclined to give Cope the benefit of the doubt.</p>
<p>Ultimately, I don&#8217;t think that it causes much debate, certainly not enough to have researchers lining up on one side or another. Were there 160-foot diplodocids roaming the Jurassic West? Did Cope exaggerate his measurements in order to &#8217;scoop&#8217; his rival? Both scenarios are possible, and they are not mutually exclusive. But without a specimen, all arguments are moot.</p>
<p>One thing that I think is cool about the new titanosaurs—they show that animals of such stature are physically possible, and they did exist!</p>
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		<title>By: wolfwalker</title>
		<link>http://www.hmnh.org/archives/2006/08/05/sizing-up-the-super-sauropods/comment-page-1/#comment-5226</link>
		<dc:creator>wolfwalker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Aug 2006 00:23:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hmnh.org/archives/2006/08/05/sizing-up-the-super-sauropods/#comment-5226</guid>
		<description>Nice job, Matt.  Answered my question very clearly &amp; precisely.  

As an aside: I first heard of &lt;i&gt;A. fragillimus&lt;/i&gt; several years ago, from a friend who was at the time a paleontology grad student, and who currently is (I hope) a working paleontologist somewhere.  At the time he said it was known from the original partial vertebra &quot;and rumored other material,&quot; and he spoke of it as if it was a rock solid thing.  So I&#039;m a bit irritated to find that it&#039;s known only from the original vertebra, that the fossil itself is lost, and that there&#039;s an argument over whether or not it&#039;s legitimate.  Is the argument a real one, with sound reasoning on both sides?  Or is it like the dinosaur-bird argument, with most workers in the field lined up on one side and only a few determined rogues on the other?  

Another aside: if what I&#039;ve heard is right, losing a sauropod fossil apparently isn&#039;t all that hard, and ironically it&#039;s precisely because they&#039;re so bloody big.  They&#039;re so big and so expensive to prepare and mount that unless they&#039;re good specimens, they aren&#039;t worth the cost.  So they simply get put into storage and forgotten.  Brigham Young University has something like 120 tons of unprepared bones stored away.  A large chunk of that collection is sauropod bits.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice job, Matt.  Answered my question very clearly &amp; precisely.  </p>
<p>As an aside: I first heard of <i>A. fragillimus</i> several years ago, from a friend who was at the time a paleontology grad student, and who currently is (I hope) a working paleontologist somewhere.  At the time he said it was known from the original partial vertebra &#8220;and rumored other material,&#8221; and he spoke of it as if it was a rock solid thing.  So I&#8217;m a bit irritated to find that it&#8217;s known only from the original vertebra, that the fossil itself is lost, and that there&#8217;s an argument over whether or not it&#8217;s legitimate.  Is the argument a real one, with sound reasoning on both sides?  Or is it like the dinosaur-bird argument, with most workers in the field lined up on one side and only a few determined rogues on the other?  </p>
<p>Another aside: if what I&#8217;ve heard is right, losing a sauropod fossil apparently isn&#8217;t all that hard, and ironically it&#8217;s precisely because they&#8217;re so bloody big.  They&#8217;re so big and so expensive to prepare and mount that unless they&#8217;re good specimens, they aren&#8217;t worth the cost.  So they simply get put into storage and forgotten.  Brigham Young University has something like 120 tons of unprepared bones stored away.  A large chunk of that collection is sauropod bits.</p>
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